Talk:Johann Nepomuk Hummel

My recent copyedit

What does this fragment mean? Looking forward, Hummel stepped into modernity through pieces like his Sonata in F sharp minor, op. 81 and his Fantasy, op. 18 for piano. These pieces both overstep Romanticism, reaching into something closer to 20th century atonality, challenging the classical harmonic structures and breaking the sonata form. I changed "breaking" to "stretching". Can we have a reference for the atonality bit? Op. 81 certainly doesn't sound very close to 20th century atonality to me! I removed the clause from the article to here, pending explanation. --RobertG ♬ talk 10:30, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I also removed that Hummel's death clos[ed] an era that has become known as the Vienna Classic. Is the classical music era known as "Vienna Classic"? Also, this seems to me rather black-and-white: is there a general consensus that the classical era closed on the 17th October 1837? Some think that Hummel had already rather turned his back on Mozartian "classicism" by the time of his Op. 81. --RobertG ♬ talk 10:30, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Although Hummel died famous and (to all appearances) secured of immortality, his perfection condemned him to oblivion at the onrush of the Romantic period. His perfection condemned him to oblivion? Sorry, I didn't understand that - could it be clarified? --RobertG ♬ talk 10:30, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd interpret "his perfection condemned him to oblivion" as saying that his classical ideas were considered old-fashioned in the romantic period, so his music was forgotten. Graham/pianoman87 talk 13:11, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

What I meant when I put the wikify tag on the article were that many of the external links needed descriptions. I was short of time, and was going to return to that later. Graham/pianoman87 talk 13:13, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The article makes Hummel sound quite advanced and radical: his mandolin concerto in G is throughly Mozartean nevertheless. --08:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Can someone provide a citation for the article's assertion that Haydn wrote a sonata in A-flat for Hummel? The implication is that this occurred while the two were in London, and none of the three sonatas that Haydn is commonly regarded to have written in London is in A-flat. A Hoboken number would be nice...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aab91030 (talk • contribs) 22:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Cane we have a reference for the date of composition of the F-sharp minor sonata? It was published in 1819, one year after the Hammerklavier. It is worth comparing the slow movements of the two sonatas: the ornamental style used in both is typical of Hummel and Field but not of Beethoven, who appears if anything to be imitating Hummel's style (and transcending it). It is also worth comparing the finale of that sonata with Schubert, who does appear to have learned from Hummel (and acknowledged this in the dedication mentioned in this article). Charles Rosen comments on the influence of the F-minor sonata on Chopin (in The Romantic Generation). Rather than say that Hummel's music looks forward, would it not be more accurate to say that his music was widely imitated and hugely influential, even if nowadays we know the imitators better than the original? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.205.118 (talk) 14:21, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Symphony

What does this actually mean? "The conspicuous lack of the symphony among Hummel's works may be explained by the fact that he was puzzled by Beethoven's innovations in that field."

The fact that Hummel did not compose a symphony could be because he was puzzled (i.e. did not understand) what Beethoven was doing with the symphony. I wish I could word that less clumsily ... Graham87 10:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Hummel's Works Page

I just created a new page to list the works of Hummel. A Wikipedia page is better than a PDF. Here is the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Nepomuk_Hummel . Make sure to contribute! - Gus ^{(T, C)} 2007-07-20 04:00Z 04:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

The link near the end of the article to a compiled list of Hummel's works does not exist on the Internet Archive. 68.51.124.65 (talk) 00:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Johann von Nepomuk Hummel's Christian Name

Although the article rightly describes Hummel as an Austrian, "Jan Nepomuk" is given as an alternative because his native town is today the capital of Slovakia. Hummel, however, was himself an ethnic German who was taken to live in Vienna at an early age. NO ONE ever called him Jan during his lifetime; certainly HE never called himself that. He signed 'J.N. Hummel', which is what he is called in his published scores. He did not speak Czech or certainly Slovak, an unwritten dialect at the time. He was simply not a Slovak!

Anyway, his name would be Jan Nepomucký in Czech, not Jan Nepomuk.

Bratislava (a name made up in the Nineteenth Century) was called Pressburg in German and Pozsony in Hungarian. It was the capital of Hungary when Hummel was born.

He really ought NOT to be in the list of Slovak composers.Tantris

This article reads badly

The wording in this article is not clear, so I put a cleanup template on it. Also, he was renowned for being strikingly ugly. There is no mention of it in this article.--Filll 14:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a portrait which makes the point - if it needs making - more than adequately. Do we need to rub it in?Mikeindex (talk) 07:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article is B-class; as others note above, its writing needs work, in addition to other things. My review is on the comments page; questions or comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 02:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Place of birth

He was born in Pozsony (Pressburg), which was a city, the capital of the Kingdom of Hungary. And the Kingdom of Hungary was part of the Habsburg Monarchy at this time. So his place of birth is not mentined correctly, so i correct it. Toroko (talk) 12:29, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Does this make his nationailty Hungarian, Slovakian or Austrian? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:57, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Sonata written by Mozart

The article currently says: "In 1791 Joseph Haydn, who was in London at the same time as young Hummel, composed a sonata in A flat for Hummel, who gave its first performance in the Hanover Square Rooms in Haydn's presence." But this work does not appear to be listed at List of solo piano compositions by Joseph Haydn? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Hummel premiere of Haydn work in A flat

The article says "In 1791 Joseph Haydn, who was in London at the same time as young Hummel, composed a sonata in A flat for Hummel". There were no A-flat solo piano sonatas composed by Haydn at this time. Are they likely referring to the A-flat Piano Trio Hob. XV/14 from 1790? See [1]. Sometimes the word "sonata" was used more loosely than it is today. Can anyone confirm? I think we should reword the text to either say piano trio, or parenthetically note that its a trio or add the Hoboken number. Thanks.DavidRF (talk) 22:01, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

lol. I'm sure I was asking something very similar myself, quite recently. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

and who is Möller?

Who indeed. According to the source he produced this image in about 1814, which resides at the Goethe-Museum, Düsseldorf. But I have been unable to find anyone by that name at de:wiki with dates that fit. Any ideas? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:45, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

That this painter "Möller" was Joseph Willibrord Mähler has been published years ago.--Suessmayr~enwiki (talk) 09:59, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you have a source for the connection here? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:08, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Johann Nepomuk Hummel/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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==Composers Project Assessment of Johann Nepomuk Hummel: 2009-01-3== This is an assessment of article Johann Nepomuk Hummel by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? ok ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. ok; list article's references are not useful. ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? ok ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) Article has some images, no sound; it could use a few more images. ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has references; no inline citations. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) Lead is short. Article prose needs work. Article is tagged for cleanup. ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) Article needs (more) images and/or other media (MOS:IMAGE) Article prose needs work (WP:MOS) ===Summary=== This article is tagged with a general cleanup tag; it is true that there are portions of the text that need work (the "Music" section being a notable example). I note that there has been some mention of this on the talk page already. The biography presented appears to be factually reasonably complete, and somewhat interesting to read, in spite of the sometimes unencyclopedic language. His life and works are covered, and there is some discussion of his music and its reception. The works list contains obviously flawed citations -- I've tagged that article. The article could use a few more images, and some sound clips if possible. The article's lead should be longer, 3 paragraphs or so. There are no inline citations; editors working on the article to fix other issues ought to consider adding them as they go. Article is B-class; plenty of work to do, though. Magic♪piano 02:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 02:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 20:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Hummel's father

That Hummel's father was "the conductor of Emanuel Schikaneder's theatre orchestra at the Theater auf der Wieden" is a piece of undocumented misinformation that one author copies from the other. Johann Hummel never worked at the Theater auf der Wieden.--Suessmayr~enwiki (talk) 09:58, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

The Hummel Project

For those of you who are interested in music history, I found this website by the name of The Hummel Project. Now what I've been thinking of adding more information in this article regarding Hummel's life and his personality. Certainly, the website has way more info than this article. I can see that there is quite a number of info not put in the article. Maybe even key information on this composer that is present on another source not only talking about Johann Nepomuk Hummel.

I was recently adding a section about his traits as a person. I got cut off in an edit conflict, and I later learned that large quotes, such as the one that I made in my edit are discouraged. But I did cite a reliable source, which was the aforementioned educational website about the composer. I now realize my mistakes and I will try to not do that again. My apologies. But I've really been wondering if editors should be adding more information to this article. After all, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, right? As long as you cite a reliable and trustful source, info should be presented on the article. Thank you and please let me know what you think about it if you are reading this. Sir Clever (talk) 07:54, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

As explained on your talk page: please better summarize what's said in the long quote, and don't just say in prose what the source is, but format it as an inline citation. Beginning is hard, sorry about the edit conflict. Please always start a paragraph at the beginning of a line, or stange things happen ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:53, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Reference No. 2 is to the Hummel project, for example. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Hummel's son Eduard

I added Hummel's sons Carl and Eduard, with links to the German Wikipedia pages. The subsequent changes made to the German Wikipedia links for Eduard Hummel have somehow broken the links.

1) The link to the German Wikipedia page you used for Carl Hummel was unnecessary because there's a page for him here on the English Wikipedia.

2) I modified your link to de:Eduard Hummel to use {{ill}}, Eduard, where the "[de]" part links to the German article. This is how interwikilinks are properly implemented. It is documented at Template:Interlanguage link/doc and Help:Interlanguage links#Inline links. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:04, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks.